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Post subject: Extensions for a modular sidux [long]
 Posted: Mar 04, 2007 - 03:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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Extensions to enable the "modules" or "plugins" concept [long]
The unionro cheatcode of sidux "allows you to restore changes to the running system from the supplied partition or loopback filesystem. This partition or loopback filesystem will be mounted read only so it will not allow more exchanges to it."
http://manual.sidux.com/en/cheatcodes-en.htm#cheatcodes
To me, this method is to separate out the static parts of users' custom settings of printer, modem, wireless, etc as the first step of customization. In fact any application that runs on the unmodified liveCD can be separated out in this fashion.
I'm proposing to extend this concept to a full directory of permanent unionfs loopback files. This will introduce "modules" or "plugins" concept to sidux, but let's use the word extension here after.
Extensions enables the ability to add software dynamically and automatically at boot, so liveCD users can easily extend sidux without the complicated re-mastering process.
Extensions can easily be saved onto external media, such as, a hard drive partition, a usb pendrive, or even on the root directory of the cdrom. After being copied to a persistent storage, upon a reboot all the extensions will automatically load via unionfs and appear seamlessly as a normal much larger system.
The first advantage of this method is that the size of your extension is your choice, you can have a 64MB, 128MB, 210MB, or even all the way up to 700MB extension cdrom.
Such extensions can be easily make by a script, from meta packages. I hope that all big meta packages can be release in such method, e.g., OpenOffice and games. The ultimate goal is to have a extreme slim core system the can be booted "toram".This will make sidux supper fast, even on very very old systems.
The extensions can solve another dilemma -- in nowadays Linux world there is no "recommended" applications any more, because the existence of rich set of tools you can choose from. For example, if you use vi, then you will hate emacs, and vice versa. So most distros have to balance the user preferences. Most will throw in 3 or 4 mail clients and window managers or even more than one desktop managers. This is really what I don't like. I just need one, why I have to waste space one the others? With the help of extensions, sidux can releases its recommended system, but experienced Linux user who have their preferences already can trim down the editors, mail/news client, window managers, desktop managers down to the ones they the prefer, by just deleting the extensions from the extensions folder on the cdrom. Actually any tools that come with more than one solutions can be trimmed this way. The saved space will allow them to put more of their favorite application on the CDROM.
Further advantage of this method is that the base OS is never touched. If someone else's extension is troublesome you can easliy remove it, and you can always boot to a pristine OS by booting without any extensions with the 'base norestore' cheat code. Feel free to install new packages to stay at the bleeding edge, if something went terribly wrong, just fall back to the original stable extension released with sidux.
The best part is that when a new version of sidux comes out, you don't have to do anything to keep your own extensions, and your own settings. There is no more need to redo a custom remaster to get your favorite applications on the live CD -- no more time consuming uncompressing, chroot'ing process, or accidentally making "coasters".
Furthermore, users can also create a directory called "optional" in the same location as the extensions for those applications that you do not wish to have automatically loaded. Extensions that are stored under this directory will not be automatically loaded, but instead will be added to the "Extension" desktop menu under the category "Install Optional Extensions". This will give you quick access to installing these extensions at any time during your session.
Copyright notice, the majority of above writings are shamelessly ripped from another distro, with minor editing, but posted here under GPL. |
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Post subject: RE: Extensions for a modular sidux [long]
Posted: Mar 04, 2007 - 04:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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| Please note that such extension approach has been proved to be working fine. I've heard that there have been people building monster DVD-sized LiveCDs from a mere 50M core distro. |
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Post subject: RE: Extensions for a modular sidux [long]
Posted: Mar 04, 2007 - 05:30 PM
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Joined: Nov 25, 2006
Posts: 2555
Status: Offline
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| Technically not feasible, while unionro can indeed be stacked and used to extend a given ISO, the different tasks you want to unitize don't play well with that approach. All debian packages are listed in dpkg's database (--> they all write changes into the same files), given that unionfs has no understanding of the file structure itself and just saves the changed files you'd have to keep the creation sequence to load "modules", likewise shared dependencies of different meta tasks would lead to merge conflicts. This means there is only one single way in this "travelling salesman problem", you don't necessarily need to go all the way (merge all unions) but can't leave out anything inbetween or change their load order. unionfs can be used as some kind of multipart archive, but not as a number of independent and self sustaining modules, the same goes for xdelta. |
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Post subject: RE: Extensions for a modular sidux [long]
Posted: Mar 07, 2007 - 04:09 AM
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Joined: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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wow, slh says it is not feasible, then it is not feasible for sure.
Please help me understand the problem better. Suppose that the default sidux installation don't have any games. Then, I install all the games the should come with sidux. Then, somehow I took a snapshot of what are actually installed, via unionrw or whatever, and put all those newly installed files into the unionfs loopback file, named game.unionro.
I can use the file for unionro, correct?
Then suppose the same thing goes for open office -- from no installation to a unionfs loopback file. Suppose that I can use unionro to mount this open office loopback file too, alone with the game.unionro. What would be the problem? |
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Post subject: RE: Extensions for a modular sidux [long]
Posted: Mar 07, 2007 - 06:31 AM
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Joined: Nov 30, 2006
Posts: 588
Location: USA
Status: Offline
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why not just use klik and store the cmg files on a usb key set up with a persistent home directory?
Not quite the same as what you are trying to do but it works. |
_________________
Debian Tips My Debian sources.list
"If you can't apt-get something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist"
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Post subject: RE: Extensions for a modular sidux [long]
Posted: Mar 07, 2007 - 10:57 AM
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Joined: Nov 25, 2006
Posts: 2555
Status: Offline
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| The problem is that you can't use both images at once - or if you do, you'd have to ensure the loading order. |
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Post subject: RE: Extensions for a modular sidux [long]
Posted: Mar 07, 2007 - 09:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 20, 2007
Posts: 61
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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Despite some workarounds & limitations, I still think a modular sidux is a good idea,
Well, seems nobody have much interested in it, otherwise, there are sure ways to deal with the limitations... |
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Post subject: RE: Extensions for a modular sidux [long]
Posted: Mar 07, 2007 - 09:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 28, 2006
Posts: 4278
Status: Offline
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| sidux is much nicer installed to hard disk, the livecd is a nice thing so users can see what it looks like, but operating systems work better when they are installed than in livemode. Try it, you'll see, you can do whatever you want with it installed. |
_________________
sidux Maintenance script: dist-upgrade, kernel install, general utilities: smxi
Backup script [using rdiff-backup]: rd-h2.sh
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Post subject: RE: Extensions for a modular sidux [long]
Posted: Mar 08, 2007 - 12:33 AM
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Joined: Dec 19, 2006
Posts: 1029
Status: Offline
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xpt,
Interested in idea yes, willing to muck around and develop the code to support layers at this point in time, no. |
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