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Post subject: Installing like PBI!? An idea or open question to all.
 Posted: Dec 04, 2006 - 11:20 PM
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Joined: Dec 02, 2006
Posts: 58
Location: Veendam, Netherlands
Status: Offline
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I don't know if someone has played with pc-bsd os.
But it has a nice and user-friendly way of installing packages.
You download a PBI package, double click on it and a installer will pop-up.
There aren't many packages yet, but you can install things like mysql-apache-php with just one package and some clicks.
It looks good, and maybe something to thing about for use in sidux!?
I look at this in the way how users can install packages easily, and this is really easy. Ok perhaps you shouldn't make things to easy, but I think that a lot of beginners hear things and like to try it, but if installation give them problems they quickly stop trying and go back to the other OS 
So what are you thinking of such an idea or usage?
Ok. a release first is more important, but this is also for later! |
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Post subject: RE: Installing like PBI!? An idea or open question to all.
Posted: Dec 04, 2006 - 11:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 02, 2006
Posts: 173
Location: Berlin
Status: Offline
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Well, I find apt quite fast and comfortable. Once you know the basics of CLI handling nothing is faster.
Maybe I would've tested also some BSD OS but no real chance since it doesn't really likes to be installed on logical volumes. And now there is also no space left to test another OS. |
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Post subject: RE: Installing like PBI!? An idea or open question to all.
Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 01:00 AM
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Joined: Nov 30, 2006
Posts: 594
Location: USA
Status: Offline
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There are already a couple different packaging methods that are similiar to pbi,
like autopackage, klik, zeroinstall.
The problem is that none of them have that many packages, and mixing to many different packaging systems probably isn't that great of an idea.
What could be simpler than apt-get install foo? With pbi and any of the others you have to first use a web browser to download the wanted package then click through the install steps.
The problem is really a windows mindset where people just want to click to install a app rather than open a terminal and type commands, even though apt is probably the easiest and most stable package manager there is. |
_________________
Debian Tips My Debian sources.list
"If you can't apt-get something, it isn't useful or doesn't exist"
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 01:32 AM
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Joined: Nov 27, 2006
Posts: 524
Location: Griffith NSW Australia
Status: Offline
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I agree with craigevil here - the issue is a mindset and lack of practice, not a packaging problem.
The windows mindset for package installation requires the following steps:
Open web browser ->
search google ->
find correct site ->
navigate to download area ->
download package ->
open file browser ->
navigate to file ->
double-click installer (+ su authentication) ->
Apt requires the following steps for >99% of software the average user will install:
Open root terminal ->
apt-get update ->
apt-cache search <package name/type etc> ->
apt-get install <package name> ->
Common sense says that Apt is the obvious winner here in speed and useability - the commands are not difficult to use or remember.
However it's fairly obvious that habit says you're more comfortable with the windows style method.
If you do decide that a gui is what you require, synaptic or adept are suitable candidates, and are still quicker for package installation than the Windows style standalone package installation method. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 09:47 AM
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Team Member
Joined: Nov 24, 2006
Posts: 2009
Location: w3
Status: Offline
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Probably the most famous and fantastic feature of Debian is it's handling of finding/installing/removing/upgrading applications. There is nothing in any other Linux distribution or operating system that comes even close to the intelligence, speed, richness and efficiency of apt (and it's frontends like synaptic or kpackage).
In Debian you have the wonderland of more than 17.000 ready made applications at your fingertips, in one repository, where professionals already have observed, tested, patched, fixed, and packaged them for you. Extreme care is taken in Debian to perfect interoperability and avoiding conflicts - even between usually not combined applications. There is virtually no useful and mature application out there which is not already included in Debian.
Stand-alone packages sound like a fine solution, but they actually are not. They don't inter-operate, they age, they become outdated and insecure quite fast, they are a latent security problem and could easily become the ground for future malware in Linux. There are special situations where they might be useful (testing different versions of software come in my mind, for example), but for the everyday desktop system they are definitely the wrong path.
Greetings,
Chris |
_________________
64bit stuff for sidux
development is life - code.zikula.org
an operating system must operate - sidux.com
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 09:55 AM
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Joined: Dec 01, 2006
Posts: 90
Location: Niedernberg
Status: Offline
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I was a long-time (almost 10 years) SuSE user, but the Debain package management system is IMHO the best I used.
The commandline is powerful and if I want a GUI for searching / browsing some tool I use synaptic.
And for the "Point-and-klick" install of some software there is Klik, which will not destroy the current installation... |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 02:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 29, 2006
Posts: 122
Location: Dresden
Status: Offline
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cleary wrote:
The windows mindset for package installation requires the following steps:
Open web browser ->
search google ->
find correct site ->
navigate to download area ->
download package ->
open file browser ->
navigate to file ->
double-click installer (+ su authentication) ->
You forgot to mention the ten times clicking on Next >> Next >> Next >> Next >> Next >> Next >> Next >> Next >> Next >> Finish
to install the software
PBI is useless. They try to copy the Windows Setup system. On Windows a Setup file is necessary, because you have to read the license file and to chose the location. On Unix like systems not. Especially on Linux the software in those repos are GPL and the location does not need to be adjusted. APT rules! |
_________________
Scanmetender[Soft] - Tender security solutions for your computer.
Scanmetender Standard - It is free! For GNU/Linux and Windows(R).
http://www.scanmetender.com
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 02:30 PM
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Joined: Dec 04, 2006
Posts: 552
Status: Offline
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apt is a nice package manager, and klik does the trick if sid is either broken or packages are not availlable or something.
also the klik way is very similar to how macOs handles "installation". because there is no real "installation" at all. Just an archive, which executes its content if you click on it.
and deinstallation simply means deleting the archive-file.
well.
in some ways some sort of "self installing deb-package" would be nice for new users.
Because indeed windows-users are not familiar with opening special programs to install software or something.
so if you consider self-extracting zips, some sort of automatic self-installing deb-package would be nice for the beginners, but normally a package depends on several others, or conflicts with some ohters... this would make such an installation approach a bit difficult.
i think most importand is to "teach" newbies that the system as it is is powerful, felxible and good in its current form.
And also how they use it the best way. Synaptic/Kpackage is a good step in that direction.
greetings,
Ge0rgy |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 02:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 29, 2006
Posts: 122
Location: Dresden
Status: Offline
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To make *.deb Packages self-installing: apt-get install gdebi
So you have to click on the Debian Package and you will get a dialog, dependencies should be solved, at least the local ones. |
_________________
Scanmetender[Soft] - Tender security solutions for your computer.
Scanmetender Standard - It is free! For GNU/Linux and Windows(R).
http://www.scanmetender.com
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 02:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 02, 2006
Posts: 173
Location: Berlin
Status: Offline
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"Dieses Apt hat Super-Kuh-Kräfte"  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 05:21 PM
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Joined: Dec 04, 2006
Posts: 552
Status: Offline
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 05, 2006 - 11:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 29, 2006
Posts: 122
Location: Dresden
Status: Offline
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apt-get moo
Schon probiert? |
_________________
Scanmetender[Soft] - Tender security solutions for your computer.
Scanmetender Standard - It is free! For GNU/Linux and Windows(R).
http://www.scanmetender.com
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 06, 2006 - 03:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 06, 2006
Posts: 4
Location: NH, USA
Status: Offline
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| I use synaptic to browse or get information for packages, then use apt-get install. Still newbie but once you do it there really is no better way. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 06, 2006 - 08:32 AM
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Joined: Dec 02, 2006
Posts: 58
Location: Veendam, Netherlands
Status: Offline
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for all messages above it is not an attack on apt. I like apt to.
concering the fast outdating of the packages I much agree. klik isn't an option here it just doesn't do the trick.
I had tried serveral things with it on the livecd, downloading went oke, installing went ok, but starting was a problem. So klik is out of the question here.
Ok, the debian repository is good and huge. So what I get out of these messages is to just write howto's / installation (more configuration) guides of different packages, perhaps a howto use thing.
Thank you all for your reaction, this is/was very usefull for me, now I know what ppl think about it and I know what I can do to help ppl.
If I install a package and it need a configuratation I will create a doc. and publish it. It will be for sidux. |
_________________
---
eislon - a sidux manual/meta package translator.
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