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All the news about sidux - sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
sleekmason - Jul 11, 2008 - 12:51 PM
Post subject: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
Just saw the second part come up. Decent review in my opinion. The author sounds like they actually have used sidux for a bit to see how they liked it instead of the usual b.s. of installing for an hour in order to make some deadline.
http://www.linuxplanet.com/linuxplanet/reviews/6501/2/
dsmithhfx - Jul 11, 2008 - 01:45 PM
Post subject: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
A rather l a m e and even silly review IMO. I doubt she spent twenty minutes on writing it, let alone an hour. She did not explain why, IHO, sidux may be considered an "alternative to ubuntu". They are geared to very different users. In particular, sidux is very unsuitable for someone who has never used Linux and is looking to dip their toe in, whereas Ubuntu is (literally) tailor-made for such users.
DeepDayze - Jul 11, 2008 - 01:45 PM
Post subject: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
Ahh, nice that the author took a bit more time to actually delve into sidux this time around. He says that the sidux manual's so well written that other distros should do well to emulate it.
So sidux is very well deserving of being a bleeding edge distro that's easy to get going.
BlueShadow - Jul 11, 2008 - 06:29 PM
Post subject: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
Quote:
In particular, sidux is very unsuitable for someone who has never used Linux and is looking to dip their toe in
This is not true. sidux is suitable for Linux-Newbies, it just depends of the individual and the will of experiencing something new.
@Deepdayze: He? "Carla" sounds female to me 
amenditman - Jul 12, 2008 - 12:56 AM
Post subject: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
I am an absolute Linux newbie. I read Carla's first post (linked to it thru LX'er) and immediately downloaded an ISO according to the instructions and tried it. Within a few days I did an install and am reading everything I can get my hands on.
Now I have read her second part of the review. I must say, it surprises me that someone who knows what's going on has exactly the same impression of sidux as I do, and has stated the case this clearly. She and I represent opposite ends of the 'user' spectrum.
I had tried Kubuntu before and found there was a lot more configuring to get everything going than I have seen with sidux.
Her two most accurate statements, I feel, are that the documentation is very far better than other distros, including the one's by big companies, and that the menu could use some cleaning up.
The documentation team should be proud of their work, it is as good or better than any professionally written, technical manual. It is one of the primary reasons I now use sidux, successfully. I have even been trying to use nothing but CLI, and the documentation is clear enough that I usually succeed in what I try.
The K menu issue to me is just that there are too many places. Example - there is a full menu selection when you click the K, and if you select Debian, you find another, somewhat different, full selection. Some applications and tools are only available in one place, but many are available in at least two places in the menu system.
Just my opinion, a new user who was looking for a distro who has chosen to join you.
Amenditman
dsmithhfx - Jul 12, 2008 - 03:50 PM
Post subject: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
sidux:Debian Sid:Unstable branch. Hello?
http://www.debian.org/releases/unstable/
enjoy your first d-u meltdown...
hoodwink - Jul 12, 2008 - 03:59 PM
Post subject: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
Just use smxi, and you will avoid the d-u meltdown in the first place.
BlueShadow - Jul 12, 2008 - 04:29 PM
Post subject: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
Quote:
sidux:Debian Sid:Unstable branch. Hello?
Hello, and welcome to sidux, seems that you are now arrived 
Quote:
enjoy your first d-u meltdown...
If you want to say something, just say it, my crystal ball is a bit pale today.
If you wanted to say that sidux will break most likely after a d-u or more likely than ubuntu then you are wrong. Btw, how many win users do update their windows regularly?
http://sidux.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB ... amp;t=2508
GoinEasy9 - Jul 12, 2008 - 06:20 PM
Post subject: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
As you can see from my join date, I've been a full time sidux user for a little over a year. I started as a newb, I used Mandrake, PCLinuxOS, and Mepis for a couple of years prior to finding sidux.
In the beginning (of my sidux adventure) I used the cli for everything, kernel upgrades, dist-upgrades and I never had a du disaster.
If one checks in the forums, reads the upgrade warnings and double checks in IRC, problems can be averted.
Just reading what apt tells you when you start a du, can prevent most problems. If apt tells you it's going to remove something important, or upgrade something major, you say "no" to du and ask questions. It's not very hard to keep sidux stable.
After a couple of months using sidux I found smxi. This added another level of protection when I did my dist-upgrades. As smxi matured it even checked for version mismatches of popular software, like the openoffice mismatch in 32 bit today.
So if your waiting for your first du meltdown using sidux it may take awhile. For me, it's been a little over a year, a year of stable Debian Sid, using sidux.
DeepDayze - Jul 12, 2008 - 06:56 PM
Post subject: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
ditto
Smxi is the new sidux user's friend...and used regularly and also paying attention to the warnings, updating sidux should be a breeze. I'd say much easier than updating Windows.
dsmithhfx - Jul 12, 2008 - 10:59 PM
Post subject: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
GoinEasy9 wrote:
As you can see from my join date, I've been a full time sidux user for a little over a year. I started as a newb, I used Mandrake, PCLinuxOS, and Mepis for a couple of years prior to finding sidux.
In the beginning (of my sidux adventure) I used the cli for everything, kernel upgrades, dist-upgrades and I never had a du disaster.
If one checks in the forums, reads the upgrade warnings and double checks in IRC, problems can be averted.
Just reading what apt tells you when you start a du, can prevent most problems. If apt tells you it's going to remove something important, or upgrade something major, you say "no" to du and ask questions. It's not very hard to keep sidux stable.
After a couple of months using sidux I found smxi. This added another level of protection when I did my dist-upgrades. As smxi matured it even checked for version mismatches of popular software, like the openoffice mismatch in 32 bit today.
So if your waiting for your first du meltdown using sidux it may take awhile. For me, it's been a little over a year, a year of stable Debian Sid, using sidux.
All of that kind of proves my point, doesn't it?
h2 - Jul 12, 2008 - 11:19 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
dsmithhfx, I think you are failing to communicate something that is clear to you but is apparently indecipherable to anyone reading your words.
I suggest you try typing longer, more complete sentences, that actually contain the idea you have in your mind, in a more fully expanded form than you are currently using, otherwise you will not be understood.
So get out those typing fingers, and create a statement that is actually verbose enough to be understood by normal people. Good luck, I for one am anxiously waiting to see what it is you were actually meaning and intending to say.
dsmithhfx - Jul 13, 2008 - 12:35 AM
Post subject:
I can only humbly implore you to reread the entire thread, from beginning to end. Concentrate. You can do it! All will become abundantly clear in the fullness of time, I have faith.
h2 - Jul 13, 2008 - 12:38 AM
Post subject:
your fondness for obscurity and terseness, while admirable, sadly makes your desired point too elusive to try to unravel for my feeble mental resources.
CaesarTjalbo - Jul 13, 2008 - 08:22 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
h2 wrote:
your fondness for obscurity and terseness, while admirable, sadly makes your desired point too elusive to try to unravel for my feeble mental resources.
LOL but that's how I feel about bash scripting...
dsmithhfx: "unstable" can mean different things. An atom can be unstable meaning it will fall apart over time. A ladder can be placed unstable meaning that it's probably unwise to climb it. I see unstable as "unstable weather": very prone to change. (I don't want to think of "the patient is in an unstable condition.")
Whether that's suitable for a newbie depends on the newbie. At least you can expect the newbie to be capable of burning a CD. Administrating via the CLI may be intimidating but the good part is one can't click "Ok" or "Proceed" from muscle memory.
dsmithhfx wrote:
... She did not explain why, IHO, sidux may be considered an "alternative to ubuntu". ...
That's a bit unfortunately worded indeed, why not an alternative to any other distro. It seems that she wants it to be a replacement of Kubuntu, perhaps that explains the title:
Carla Schroder in TFA wrote:
However I can compare to Kubuntu Hardy, which was the operating system that sidux replaced on my Thinkpad T61
damentz - Jul 15, 2008 - 01:07 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Part 2
dsmithfx, kudos are well deserved for redirecting the focus of our forum commoners to more trivial things like the absence of a tangible plot in your posts. Though, I'm still a little confused with the context of meltdown; my laptop neither overheats or breaks from the results of a dist-upgrade. Not to mention, I've been notified many times in the past that my bad upgrade habits and X fetish would eventually destroy my installation of sidux.
Quote:
your fondness for obscurity and terseness, while admirable, sadly makes your desired point too elusive to try to unravel for my feeble mental resources.
I found this particular quote of h2 highly effective while unintentionally listening to psychedelic music, my 2c.
hubi - Jul 15, 2008 - 01:15 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Pa
damentz wrote:
while unintentionally listening to psychedelic music
I unearthed Primal Scream's "Vanishing Point" ... unless this is too modern and does not count as psychedelic ... 
... Great stuff tho ...
hubi
GoinEasy9 - Jul 15, 2008 - 02:26 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review
Considering my predilection for bringing together the old and the new, I am imagining multiple multi-colored screens displaying the effects of a Debian Sid DU meltdown (background scents hint of strawberry incense) while hearing in the background, the rock operatic intricacies of Frank Zappa's "Help I'm A Rock". (Yes, that's psychedelic.)
Now, somewhere during one of the high crescendos (in between the la la la la refrain and the part where the line "Help I'm a cop" gets repeated), the screens clear. On one screen the line from smxi that says, "Your dist-upgrade has completed without errors" appears. On the other screen, a single line, in italic font, somewhat in a purple haze reads, "sidux is STABLE Debian Sid, all newbians welcome, no meltdown here".
<Psychedelic>
How his naked ears were tortured by the sirens sweetly singing,
For the sparkling waves are calling you to kiss their white laced lips.
</Psychedelic>
h2 - Jul 15, 2008 - 02:30 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review
actually frank was explicitly NOT psychedelic, as he stated many times, he didn't even take acid, although speed was something he liked.
weird is not necessarily psychedelic, although much psychedelic stuff could be considered weird.
Otherwise cool ideas, heh.
dsmithhfx - Jul 15, 2008 - 09:38 AM
Post subject:
You guys are dweebs, not n00bs...
lucky9 - Jul 15, 2008 - 04:40 PM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review- Pa
damentz wrote:
dsmithfx, kudos are well deserved for redirecting the focus of our forum commoners to more trivial things like the absence of a tangible plot in your posts. Though, I'm still a little confused with the context of
meltdown; my laptop neither overheats or breaks from the results of a dist-upgrade. Not to mention, I've been notified many times in the past that my bad upgrade habits and X fetish would eventually destroy my installation of sidux.
Quote:
your fondness for obscurity and terseness, while admirable, sadly makes your desired point too elusive to try to unravel for my feeble mental resources.
I found this particular quote of h2 highly effective while unintentionally listening to psychedelic music, my 2c.
Hell, it sent me off into psychelelic musing-land without music. But I enjoyed the ride.
dsmithhfx - Jul 16, 2008 - 12:10 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review
Here's a precis for the intellectually-challenged, of which there seem to be several swarming this thread of late:
sidux is a very poor choice for people lacking in prior experience with the linux cli, don't know where xorg.conf and menu.lst live, don't know what 'root' is, and don't habitually spend well north of 30% of their precious time administering their system and monitoring a relatively obscure distro forum for d-u warnings and the attendant emergency fixes and script patches for when their system boots into a black screen.
Um, unless they bought support from the geezer what persuaded 'em to try it.
Gee, that's probably >99% of the human race, doncha think?
So... Let's lose the fanboi 'tude and get real, eh?
'Nuff said.
Er, and don't ask what a "precis" is...
h2 - Jul 16, 2008 - 12:25 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review
dsmithhfx, no wonder I couldn't understand you, you weren't saying anything of substance. Did you just now discover that not every operating system is suited for every one? You're making some real progress here, congratulations, keep up the good work. Maybe next you'll learn how to read documentation and learn that the stuff you think is so hard is only hard if you want it to be, otherwise it's pretty easy.
dsmithhfx - Jul 16, 2008 - 12:29 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - review
>Did you just now discover that not every operating system is suited for every one?
What's that you say? sidux is not an alternative for Ubuntu? 
They are designed for very different users? Eh? Speak up!
absolut - Jul 16, 2008 - 01:15 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - re
dsmithhfx wrote:
sidux is a very poor choice for people lacking in prior experience with the linux cli
wrong
dsmithhfx wrote:
don't know where xorg.conf and menu.lst live
wrong again
dsmithhfx wrote:
don't know what 'root' is
wrong again... your statements seem to be kind of wrong on average...
dsmithhfx wrote:
and don't habitually spend well north of 30% of their precious time administering their system and monitoring a relatively obscure distro forum for d-u warnings and the attendant emergency fixes and script patches for when their system boots into a black screen.
damn! wrong again!
q.e.d.
dsmithhfx, i'd like to suggest you the following website where you can read more about the evaluation methods i use:
http://lleo.aha.ru/na/en/
dsmithhfx - Jul 16, 2008 - 01:29 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu
Oooh... it's all wrong because... you said so!
amenditman - Jul 16, 2008 - 01:35 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu
I thought this thread was a discussion of a review article.
I'm such a newb I can't even follow a thread correctly.
I've misunderstood the instructions again.
How could I ever expect to correctly use sidux?
Get a life somewhere else, dsmithhfx! You're completely exhausting to listen to.
Amenditman
A complete newb who started using sidux because of the 'review'.
No real problems here.
sleekmason - Jul 16, 2008 - 02:08 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu
Hell I'll agree to that. Dsmithhfx, your really acting like an ass. We understand you would prefer everybody else to be wrong in all regards concerning arguments with you. Is there a point to this? If you don't like sidux why are you here? And yes, your comments indicate your disaproval of sidux. I understand you believe you are making intelligent comments but you are not. You are being ambigious and devisive for some purpose that doesn't need to be represented here.
slam - Jul 16, 2008 - 09:14 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu
sidux is definitely not the right operating system for everyone - that's a fact. It's intended user groups are partially overlapping with the markets Canonical targets, but not identical.
We do have many newbie users at sidux, and take a lot of care for them. They are happy to be with us, while they are learning something new they like. sidux however is not a newbie specialized Linux distribution.
While we tolerate even political and other controversial topics, we will not accept personal insults, please everyone (re-)read our code of conduct.
Please find back to a constructive conversation, otherwise this topic will be closed.
Greetings,
Chris
CaesarTjalbo - Jul 16, 2008 - 09:48 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu - re
dsmithhfx wrote:
...
sidux is a very poor choice for people lacking in prior experience with the linux cli, don't know where xorg.conf and menu.lst live, don't know what 'root' is, and don't habitually spend well north of 30% of their precious time administering their system and monitoring a relatively obscure distro forum for d-u warnings and the attendant emergency fixes and script patches for when their system boots into a black screen.
...
So... Let's lose the fanboi 'tude and get real, eh?
There's one thing that Ubuntu has over sidux (AFAIK): it's possible to buy systems with Ubuntu pre-installed. That means that it's possible to buy a Linux based desktop without having to install the OS yourself, effectively putting Linux on par with Windows for a computer user who doesn't want to understand anything other than how to operate a few programs.
If the OS has to be installed by the user, then there's not much difference between Windows and Linux IMHO but it may well be that >99% of the human race has never attempted to try to install an OS. From those few that do install OSs you may expect a little interest in and understanding of computers. Say, enough to be more or less able to describe a problem and find resources to solve it.
It's essential though: some people only use computers for very limited purposes. All the administration has to be done by someone else, be it the IT department or a helpful neighbour. OTOH, computers have been quite common in the homes and workplaces for some 20 years and many people tinkered with them in various degrees, even without useful GUIs or on-line assistance. People have used the commandline routinely. People will find xorg.conf and menu.lst, just as they found config.sys, autoexec.bat or regedit.exe.
How much difference between Ubuntu and sidux, or Windows, is there really? Software stability? Rolling release? I don't know how rock solid Ubuntu is but since I haven't broken my sidux system in the 7 months that I'm using it, I suppose they're going strong too. Just haven't seen a new version of sidux since then, although the name on the download package changed, and I haven't personally applied fixes or patches either (well... I had to switch the sound back on when I installed the first 2.6.25 kernel 
). My dad's internet access disappeared last week due to the unfortunate combination of a Windows patch and the ZoneAlarm firewall. He's been running Windows XP for years and as far as he's concerned he'll "roll" a little while longer. The "root" and "administrator" accounts may be hidden on Ubuntu and default on on Windows XP (it used to be in AFAIK) but if that makes those systems better suitable for a newbie is arguable; it's not strange that Vista has brought UAC.
The "relatively obscure distro forum" is just that, obscure compared to the Buntu fora or all the on-line resources for other OSs but again not different. DU warnings are unfortunate, it's better to have nothing to warn about, but also fortunate: I don't have a son who fixes my system when it breaks, unlike my dad.
Don't get me wrong: no "fanboi 'tude" to lose here, I'll jump ship if this distro doesn't play nice with my system and preferences. I've recommended sidux to newbies and experienced Linux users alike based on my own experiences, which I wouldn't have if administration was difficult or time consuming. I can imagine situations where sidux isn't an alternative to Windows, OpenBSD, etc. but I don't see why sidux isn't an alternative to Ubuntu (or Fedora, OpenSuSE, etc.).
dsmithhfx - Jul 16, 2008 - 10:18 AM
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Well said, Caesar, and I don't disagree with any of that. I take issue with the review and in particular the title of the review, which the author doesn't really support or even explain (other than she tried kubuntu, and now is trying sidux).
I began using linux with ubuntu 7.04 and I currently have kubuntu gutsy installed, along with fedora 8, sidux, and most recently, Mandriva 2008.1. I also ran opensuse 10.3 for a while, and tried the 11 beta until I ran into upgrade problems (well, it was a beta). I've got zenwalk 5.2 on another, really old pc where it runs like a champ. Haven't been able to bring it up to the level of functionality of Windows 98 yet, so it its still unsuitable for my wife. Incidentally I also run xp, 2k and OS X 10.4. Only recently left NT4 behind. I used vista for a few months at a job (no choice), and hated every minute of it.
I've also tried several other distros as virtual machines (two of my favorites are slitaz and antix).
Most linux distros are compilations of 'the usual suspects': a more-or-less recent kernel, a desktop environment (gnome or kde, more rarely xfce), boot loader (grub), web browser (firefox), office suite, media player, yada yadda.
About the only distinguishing feature is the software/update manager. Those can be very different from distro to distro. Having tried the rest, apt is the best, hands down. But some of the others are beginning to catch up.
At the end of the day, one is hard-pressed to notice a hell of a lot of difference in the user experience among all these distros.
I do like sidux, so far. It is noticeably faster than my other installed systems, especially for boot and shutdown. How much credit is due to the sidux team, beyond the fact they put it together, and how much is attributable to a more recent kernel, and xfce, I can't say. I don't mind using the cli, and sidux has forced me to use it like never before.
I'm very confident in saying that Joe/Jill Average computer user, who just wants to read email, browse sears.com, and edit a resume in *.doc format, and is barely even aware of the OS (until it breaks), is definitely going to like ubuntu a heck of a lot more. I would consider it the height of irresponsibility to foist something like sidux on such a user, and I sure wouldn't want to have to support them.
If someone wants to try it on their own, as a sort of hobby project, more power to them. I just won't steer them to it. Quite the opposite.
edits: speling and grimmer
amenditman - Jul 16, 2008 - 12:09 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu
Thank you CaeseTjalbo for putting this thread back on track.
There are very definite differences between sidux and ubuntu when installing. The ubuntu install requires more active and informed participation than the sidux install, in my experience, and it takes longer.
Windows installs are even more obscure until you've done one or two and take substantially more time than the ubuntu install
lucky9 - Jul 17, 2008 - 08:04 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: sidux, an alternative to ubuntu
There's no comparison. sidux 2008-02 installs here in less that 3 minutes.